The Pros and Cons of Sending Employees Back to the Office

Additional resources

• Returning To The Office: Tips On How To Prepare Your Employees
• Reasons Employees Are Leaving Their Jobs & How To Prevent It
• Hiring & Salary Guide
• How To Manage A Hybrid Workforce: Tips For Making Remote Teams Successful

The pros and cons of sending employees back to the office

Pros:

1. Employees will focus on the company that they are working for 

Employees can take advantage of working remotely in a negative way. In many cases, working from home can lead to employees taking on other jobs while simultaneously working for your company; they can’t do this if they are in the office. 

2. Bringing everyone together in an office comes with many benefits

Better training, more learning experiences, meeting employees in person, and creating engagement that may not exist while working remotely.

3. If you are a company that values culture, sending employees back to the office is the way to go

By doing this you will establish strong communication and relationships. Yes, it can be done via zoom, but in-person culture is difficult to recreate and may not be as successful virtually. 

4. As an employer, it will be easier for employees to access you 

As a leader in a virtual workplace environment, it is important for you to be accessible; most times your employees may find it difficult to reach you. When working in an office, people feel more comfortable to reach out to you by simply knocking at your door and stopping in at your desk.

Cons:

1. Sending employees back to the office appears as a negative idea now 

If you are an employer that decides to make this shift, be prepared for some controversy and bad looks. It might appear as though you don’t trust your employees. 

2. You lose the flexibility that comes with working remotely 

It is hard to structure how you spend your days when you work in an office. By working remotely, you can open your computer at any time. Whether you are traveling, live far away, or feel ill, you can still be productive. By going back to the office, you lose that opportunity which may lead to more calling out from work. 

3. Hiring employees may be more difficult due to telecommuting

By working virtually, you can hire employees from all over the country. Whereas if you bring everyone back to the office, you may lose employees if they moved out of state while working with you remotely and your hiring range will be pushed to a much smaller group. 

Tips

1. If you are facing backlash for bringing employees into the office, always remember this: It is your company and your choice to make. 

2. Remember that employees can goof off whether working remotely or working in the office. Some have a better chance at productivity working in an office setting, but others may have that same chance when working remotely. 

3. Being accessible is important whether you are in an office or working remotely. Make sure that as a leader you are reachable, so it is always easy for your employees to access you.

4. If you want to bring employees back in the office, try being more influential about it. It may help with productivity and will show just how much you want to bring your employees back in if you give an incentive.

Transcript

Pete Newsome  00:11
You’re listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome, and this is your source for all things hiring, staffing, and recruiting.

Pete Newsome  00:17
I am back again today with Ricky Baez, to talk a little controversy today. So Ricky, before we get into that, how are you, man?

Ricky Baez  00:25
As of right now, I am doing absolutely amazing Pete.

Pete Newsome  00:29
You’re doing well? It’s Friday. 

Ricky Baez  00:31
And I’m driving back home because I live South Orlando on I4, and my car starts to overheat. Light starts going crazy, smoke going crazy it’s 10:30 at night, and I pull over guess where I pull over?

Ricky Baez  00:31
You know what, I had a little bit of an issue last night but it’s not your fault. I was at a client meeting for dinner. 

Pete Newsome  00:55
I have no idea. 

Ricky Baez  00:57
Lee road. 

Pete Newsome  00:58
Lee road, okay.

Ricky Baez  00:59
So for those of you who know Central Florida really well. Lee road off I4, not a good place for you to pull over after dark at 10:30 at night.

Ricky Baez  01:09
So as soon as I pull over and park and I’m trying to find a gas station but not drive too far, so my car doesn’t completely go nuts. I got to put on my crazy face. You know that way people don’t approach me too easily. 

Ricky Baez  01:20
Once you put on a crazy face in a bad area, people leave you alone. 

Pete Newsome  01:23
Okay

Ricky Baez  01:24
So that’s what I had to do yesterday. But aside from that, I finally got my car back home. Everything’s great, Pete.

Pete Newsome  01:31
Well, man, I’m sorry. I’m sorry to hear that. Did you make it home with the car though?

Ricky Baez  01:35
I did because there’s a little trick that my dad taught me way back in the day. And I mean, way back in the day when he had a Corolla in the early 80s. 

Ricky Baez  01:44
If your car overheats, roll all the windows down, and turn on the heater. The heater and open the vent, because back then at least a car. 

Ricky Baez  01:53
The heater uses the car’s heat to heat the inside of the car. So it takes the heat away from the engine. People that didn’t know that this was a mechanical tip of the day today, right? 

Pete Newsome  02:03
Yeah, that’s it, and that concludes our show.

Ricky Baez  02:09
I mean, you asked me how I was doing. So that’s what happened.

Pete Newsome  02:11
I did, and I’m glad you made it home safely. And, I’m glad you gave that advice. So if we do nothing else of worth, we at least gave people that knowledge, which I didn’t know.

Ricky Baez  02:24
Where did you learn that from? The Hire Calling Podcast.

Ricky Baez  02:27
Awesome, now we’re going to have a lot of gear heads and people who own auto body stops listening in which they should, they can learn a lot of things from the show.

Pete Newsome  02:36
Although I think you know, this is an unintended segue, but I am a Tesla driver. So I don’t think that would work for me. 

Pete Newsome  02:45
But I think we’re here to talk about Tesla today a little bit, right?

Ricky Baez  02:49
We are, we’re here to talk about the man who brought Tesla to the forefront as far as the car is concerned, not the inventor, but Mr. Elon Musk, right?

Pete Newsome  03:00
Elon Musk, who’s been in the press a lot lately. Trying to buy Twitter right now, I think Elon likes the spotlight. Many of us like seeing him in the spotlight. 

Pete Newsome  03:11
Whether you agree with everything he says or not, you can’t deny that he’s entertaining. And you can’t deny that he’s an incredibly intelligent, successful business person who is doing a lot. 

Pete Newsome  03:28
I personally think he’s doing a lot of good for the world. Not everyone agrees with that. And that’s okay. But I don’t think anyone can question the success that he’s had and that he’s worked very, hard for it, which I think is also part of what we’re going to talk about today. 

Pete Newsome  03:48
So why don’t we just get right to it, the subject is really about an email that was shared publicly just a couple of days ago, that Elon had sent to all the Tesla employees regarding coming back into the office. 

Pete Newsome  04:03
And so that’s a topic we’ve already spoken about. There are a lot of businesses right now deciding how to handle post pandemic coming back in staying virtual, doing a hybrid environment. 

Pete Newsome  04:18
But Elon threw the gauntlet down in a pretty big way earlier this week. So do you have the article in front of you, I think, right? Or the quote I do specifically actually.

Ricky Baez  04:27
So I’ve got the article, this is over from CNN. And I’m trying to find who this is by Chris Isidore on CNN business. This is from yesterday, Thursday, June 2, and I’m just going to read the first part of it. 

Ricky Baez  04:39
“Elon Musk is demanding that Tesla office workers returned to in person work or leave the company. The policy disclosed in leaked emails Musk sent to Tesla executive staff on Tuesday was first reported by electric vehicle news site electric.” 

Ricky Baez  04:55
And here’s their quote, here’s part of the email. You’re ready? Here’s what it says.

Ricky Baez  04:59
“Anyone who wishes to do remote work must be in the office for a minimum. And I mean a minimum of 40 hours per week or depart Tesla. This is less than we ask our factory workers must wrote, adding that the office must be added that the office must be the employee’s primary workplace, where the other workers that they regularly interact with are based, not a remote branch office unrelated to the job duties.”

Ricky Baez  05:26
So and he also says that you know, it’s not in its black and white. He says, “If there’s anybody who will like an amendment who will like to an exemption to that he personally review it to see if it has any merit.”

Pete Newsome  05:44
Yeah, I don’t know if there’s going to be a long line of folks wanting to be personally. Well, nothing would surprise me today, but I’m gonna I’m going to play the odds and say that, most won’t probably ask for that exception.

Ricky Baez  05:59
You know what? 

Ricky Baez  06:00
Writing an email like that, doesn’t give people the warm fuzzy that they will feel comfortable going to a guy like that. And I say a guy like that because I agree with you. I think he’s brilliant, he’s doing a lot of great things. His work ethic is off the charts. 

Ricky Baez  06:16
I mean, he really is, I really think he’s wrong on this one because I understand what he’s saying, because factory workers, obviously, can’t work from home, right? Because they need to be in the factory assembling the vehicles together. 

Ricky Baez  06:34
But there are other positions that you don’t necessarily have to be in the office. So on one side, I completely understand that it’s important for the employees to see their leadership there. Right, they’re present, they’re there. 

Ricky Baez  06:46
But on the opposite end of the spectrum, I say give them that flexibility to wherever they are comfortable working from. I mean, it’s I don’t know, what do you think?

Pete Newsome  06:55
Well, so I think it’s not my place to say whether he’s wrong or not. But you think he is, but why, why exactly. Do you think he’s wrong? It’s his company, he’s in charge. His rules? Everyone’s free to work. 

Pete Newsome  07:16
What’s wrong about that? Or are you saying it’s a bad idea? Because that’s a little different to me. Right? Where it’s, I don’t think there’s any fundamental problem with what he’s doing. 

Pete Newsome  07:26
You’re not suggesting that? I don’t believe because let’s be frank, two years ago, that was expected. This is a statement that wouldn’t be controversy at all. 

Pete Newsome  07:38
If anything, someone who runs a company of that size, coming out and saying everyone now has to work at home, we no longer want you in the office, that would be weird. 

Pete Newsome  07:52
Or at least even giving permission for everyone to work virtually would have been very bleeding edge two years ago. 

Pete Newsome  08:01
And so now, I think it’s indicative of how different the world is where you think an employer requiring his employees to be in the office is inherently wrong. I find that fascinating.

Ricky Baez  08:14
So here’s what I find fascinating. It’s who says something, you said there’s a difference between a bad idea and it being wrong? What in this case, what’s that difference? Because I don’t see it.

Pete Newsome  08:26
Okay, well when you say he’s wrong, I would think that there’s the opposite of that as being right. Okay. So is it wrong for an employer to require employees to be in the office? 

Pete Newsome  08:40
I don’t see how that can be a right or wrong situation. I get that’s what I mean. So not to make it about semantics. But that seems to have more of a serious, you know, offensive sort of implication to it versus I think, I suspect what you mean is you think it’s a bad idea on his part.

Ricky Baez  09:03
I’m going to backtrack then, I agree with you. think it’s a bad idea, not that it’s wrong. 

Ricky Baez  09:09
But I think with the way the world is working today, the way the workforce is moving today, I don’t want to say they’re demanding, but the idea of a flexible work schedule and flexible doesn’t mean one or the other flexible is they have the option to work if the job they takes it, where they feel comfortable in it, where they can be the most creative, right? 

Ricky Baez  09:33
I think people would value that flexibility more than when they did pre pandemic because pre pandemic, you know, it’s people worked in the office, the expectation is that they work in the office. 

Ricky Baez  09:44
Telecommuting is not something that’s brand new, but you got to admit it has skyrocketed since the pandemic hit, and whatever, whatever issue a business leader had with telecommuting whether they would think people will be Gaffin off at home and aren’t really putting in the hours they should I think the pandemic prove that to be a false statement. 

Ricky Baez  10:06
Because some people did do a good job at home. Yeah, there were a few who were not doing what they were supposed to be doing. But for what I have seen the vast majority of people did a great job working from home.

Pete Newsome  10:17
I mean, do you have any empirical data to back that up?

Ricky Baez  10:20
Not right now.

Ricky Baez  10:20
No, but I think I read somewhere, I would find it. But I think I read somewhere that on average productivity shot up 37%. 

Ricky Baez  10:22
Now, don’t quote me on that yet, I have to find that article I read about a year ago. But that’s the only information I have. 

Pete Newsome  10:33
I don’t mean to try to push in that corner, because I suspect that for every article that shows productivity has gone up, there’s another study that’s going to show it’s gone down, and it’s really going to be written by whoever wants that outcome to.

Pete Newsome  10:56
Yeah, as an agenda perfect. 

Pete Newsome  10:58
So let’s get away from that because I think it’s impossible to prove or even believe, regardless of what studies we point to. 

Pete Newsome  11:10
I do know that since the world has largely gone virtual over the past couple of years, there have been a lot of people taking advantage of that in a bad way. 

Pete Newsome  11:22
Taking multiple jobs working more than one, there are websites that exist, to tell people how to do it. And so as an employer, you can’t ignore those things, you can’t ignore the possibility of that. 

Pete Newsome  11:38
And at a company like 4 Corner Resources, we have between 30 and 40 employees who know there’s nowhere to hide, we all communicate with each other frequently. 

Pete Newsome  11:56
Everyone’s accountable in a way that just doesn’t exist at a company with 1000s of employees. And having worked for two very large employers, I can tell you, there’s a lot of people who, even when they’re in the office, do very little work. 

Pete Newsome  12:10
Okay, so if we talk about the pros and cons of it as an employer, I think there are a lot of valid reasons to want your employees in the office that aren’t meant to harm the employees at all. 

Pete Newsome  12:28
I don’t think that’s what it’s about. I think it’s about productivity, I think it’s about being able to train and learn, meet, and engage all the things that are really hard to do when you’re not together. 

Pete Newsome  12:48
And it’s, I guess, the main thing, It’s impossible, we all put ourselves in that situation. And think what we want or how we’d feel well, we’re not Elon Musk, and we’re not running Tesla. 

Pete Newsome  13:03
So any other companies? 

Pete Newsome  13:05
Yeah, I mean, you’re an HR professional, I run a staffing business. And so I can say what works in our world. But I’m not in a position to say what’s best for Tesla. And I also will say, we have to get into this at some point. 

Pete Newsome  13:26
They are Tesla.

Pete Newsome  13:27
They’re one of the most sought after employers. They’re one of the best brands that exist in the world, one of the most valued organizations in the world, and they can be a lot more demanding than a lot of other companies could be. Tesla is a highly sought after employer.

Ricky Baez  13:48
So I agree they don’t have to advertise about their culture, right? Because they really have people knocking down on their door. And you know what, and if anybody doesn’t like what he wrote, I agree with you, Pete, It is his company. 

Ricky Baez  14:00
But the reason I’m saying it’s a bad idea, again, is that the work environment has shift, it really has shifted, right? So when you have other organizations that are open to this flexibility, again, I’m not saying one way or the other, I’m saying give employees the option. 

Ricky Baez  14:17
Give them the option, because not everybody wants to work from home. Some people want to work in the office to get away from home. I’m not like some people like that, right? 

Ricky Baez  14:24
But if the flexibility is there, that would attract a better workforce and the workforce would be really happy to work there. Now, I know Tesla doesn’t have that problem, because they’re such a big, you know, brand and people do want to work there. 

Ricky Baez  14:36
But here’s, the part that really gets me when I hear somebody say no, no, no, no, I need everybody back in the office, regardless of what kind of job they have, because of productivity. 

Ricky Baez  14:47
Here’s what that tells me, that tells you that leader doesn’t have any trust in their employees. 

Ricky Baez  14:51
Right, either they don’t have trust in their employee because if I hire somebody to work from home, me extending that job offer it implies trust that you’re going to be able to do what you say he was going to do, and I’m going to pay you a salary for that. 

Ricky Baez  15:05
But for me to say, because of a small fraction of the population, they might do this, we do a blanket policy for everybody. I just think it’s a bad idea. 

Ricky Baez  15:17
And for somebody like Elon Musk, who has sent rock, he send cars into space, with a mannequin right on the driver’s seat on top of a rocket, the rocket that took that car into space, came back down and landed on a little tiny drone in the middle of the ocean. 

Ricky Baez  15:35
If he’s able to do that, I don’t know why he’s not able to create an environment and some kind of a program, a policy in the office where you are able to be more collaborative when people are not in the office, it’s just I find it hard to believe. 

Pete Newsome  15:51
So you think it’s it’s a matter of trust as much saving else? 

Ricky Baez  15:57
That is what I believe, because otherwise, why would he feel that people are most productive? And when they’re in the office when other people are around?

Pete Newsome  16:06
And now I am going put you on the spot. 

Ricky Baez  16:08
Go ahead.

Pete Newsome  16:10
This is about trust a little bit. 

Pete Newsome  16:12
Do you trust everything that our federal government tells you?

Ricky Baez  16:17
No.

Pete Newsome  16:17
Okay, do you trust everything that our major media outlets tell you? 

Ricky Baez  16:23
Oh, no way. 

Pete Newsome  16:24
Okay, so you don’t trust you know, these organizations that have a broad, a big spotlight on them, that really are built, exist to be trusted, right? Because without trust in our federal government, what do we have?

Pete Newsome  16:44
Nothing good. 

Pete Newsome  16:45
Without trust in our media, what’s their purpose? Should they exist at all? And these are organizations that are very much in the spotlight. 

Pete Newsome  16:55
And you’re questioning, you know, a CEO of, I don’t know how many employees Tesla has, should look that up. 

Ricky Baez  17:01
It’s 1000s. 

Pete Newsome  17:02
Yeah, worldwide. And they probably do that Elon Musk is supposed to trust these people who will never meet never see. 

Ricky Baez  17:11
His employees?

Pete Newsome  17:12
Yeah.

Ricky Baez  17:12
Absolutely. 

Ricky Baez  17:13
So you can’t compare trusting the employees with the federal government tells you. The federal government has proven.

Pete Newsome  17:21
Some blind trust, is what he should run the company based on?

Ricky Baez  17:25
No, I think he should trust his leaders to be able to handle their own teams, and to be able to influence their employees, whether they’re at home or somewhere else, and give them that flexibility. I mean, I think, if Elon is going to pay because this email went to the executives, right? 

Ricky Baez  17:42
I’m assuming he’s paying these executives, well over six figures, maybe even five or six figures, right? 

Pete Newsome  17:49
Maybe seven.

Ricky Baez  17:54
So he’s paying them a really good amount of money. 

Pete Newsome  18:08
Well, there is trust, but I think there’s also reality. These websites we mentioned a minute ago, exist for a reason. And it’s happening with frequency where people are taking advantage of those situations. And I am with you in the sense that I want to believe that our employees are not abusing that situation. 

Ricky Baez  18:24
I don’t know, anybody who would pay that much money to help run and be a leadership of that company, without some kind of trust involved. Otherwise, why are they there?

Pete Newsome  18:40
I want to believe that no one would abuse that situation. But that’s extremely naive to just take that on faith. And I expect that time will show that well, let me step back. I’ll make it personal for a minute about our own situation.

Ricky Baez  18:59
I was about to put you on the spot.

Pete Newsome  19:01
I mean, look, it’s a decision that I’m responsible for making and I did make and the one that our outcome was that we’re going to give employees the ability to work from wherever they want. And is there some trust involved in that? Sure.

Pete Newsome  19:19
In our world, it’s pretty obvious if someone isn’t accessible, doing their job, and working. And I think there’s plenty of opportunity for people to take advantage of the internet and jumping on social media and goofing around at work, whether they’re in the office or not. 

Pete Newsome  19:35
Just say that you’re either going to do your job well, or you’re not regardless of where you are. 

Pete Newsome  19:41
So I’m playing devil’s advocate with you a little bit about the trust thing because I do not think it’s practical for Elon to grant that trust or any leader of a company that size when we know that people would take advantage of that. 

Pete Newsome  20:01
But I think you lose a lot of other things that you can’t capture being remote. And the biggest one is, new hire, onboarding, and learning and training that absolutely takes a backseat. Or it’s less than it would otherwise be if you were in the office. 

Ricky Baez  20:22
It’s a lesser impact. I agree there because I’m big on onboarding, you know that.

Pete Newsome  20:25
And that’s a struggle for us. That’s, probably the biggest limitation of being virtual. And the other one, I would say, there are two big ones. 

Pete Newsome  20:34
The other one is just the ongoing learning, communication, and relationship building that happens. So if you’re a company that values culture in any way, or requires a strong culture to succeed, how you can even have a culture being virtual is a very difficult thing to define.

Ricky Baez  20:58
But not impossible. 

Pete Newsome  20:59
No, no, it’s not impossible, but it’s just a lesser version, right? 

Pete Newsome  21:04
That we have employees who I don’t get to engage with, just as a matter of practicality because it would require an individual phone call or Zoom meeting where if we’re in the office, we just see each other.

Pete Newsome  21:19
That human interaction, it’s really hard to quantify the value of that. I can’t point to something and say, well, because we don’t get to run into people and get to know them on a personal level, the way I would if we were in the office. 

Pete Newsome  21:34
Can I point to our balance sheet and say how that’s impacted? No, not really. But it’s real, right? It doesn’t make any less real for me. So I don’t know if he came out with a statement yet on the purpose behind it. 

Pete Newsome  21:48
We’re making some assumptions, I think in talking about trust, or is that what he said? I don’t know. 

Ricky Baez  21:55
No, I’m assuming that he didn’t say that. I’m assuming that.

Ricky Baez  21:58
Somebody put on Twitter, which made me laugh because people keep asking him. Hey, what? You’re really right, this you’re not right, this, but I’m trying to find that one Twitter response that I thought was actually pretty funny. 

Ricky Baez  22:15
Somebody on Twitter said, 

Ricky Baez  22:16
“Hey, Elon, any additional comment to people who think coming into work is an antiquated concept?” 

Ricky Baez  22:24
And Musk replied, “They should pretend to work somewhere else.”

Ricky Baez  22:31
I got to give it to the guy, he has some awesome one line zingers. 

Ricky Baez  22:35
He does. 

Ricky Baez  22:37
So to me, again, I have no data to back this up. This is just you know, me, as an HR person who I have seen organizations who are really hardcore one way or the other. And again, I’m not saying that they should allow people to just work from home 100%, because that’s just doing the same thing as bringing them back to the office.

Ricky Baez  22:59
I think what a lot of people are going to look forward to these next couple of years is going to have it’s going to be that flexibility for the jobs that do allow it. Again, a factory worker, obviously, you can’t do that. A forklift driver, you can’t.

Ricky Baez  23:14
Well wait a minute, I did see a video the other day of a physician using virtual reality tying a shoelace from across the world using you know, like those. 

Pete Newsome  23:28
Robots. 

Ricky Baez  23:29
Yeah, robot arms, I got to find that video. So maybe forklift drivers and things like that, where maybe we’re not so far off, maybe in 10 years, there are going to be automated. 

Ricky Baez  23:39
But I think with the people I have consulted within in the past who I have had this conversation with, as to saying, I want to make sure everybody’s back in the office, the conversation that’s happened, it’s why. 

Ricky Baez  23:53
And what they’ve told me is that because I know they’re more productive in the office. So that’s when I push back. Do you not trust that they are productive or not productive at home? And if you do, let me see that data, we can work on that. And we can come up with a policy. 

Ricky Baez  24:09
And they haven’t been able to point to that. Does it exist? Maybe? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t, but that’s just been my experience. But in this case, dude, he’s about to buy Twitter or if he hasn’t already, I think he’s in the process of buying Twitter.

Pete Newsome  24:23
And he’s indicated to those employees there.

Ricky Baez  24:26
Wasn’t it a few months ago, the Twitter CEO say you can work from wherever you want, as long as you want, as long as you’re creative and productive. And now here comes the potential boss ain’t nope, in the office. I wonder what kind of rift that’s created over at Twitter headquarters?

Pete Newsome  24:41
Well, again, I’m a fan of the open market. And I think if Tesla or Twitter decides to go in that direction, then they have to live with the consequences good or bad. And no one else should really who’s not involved, you can have an opinion. 

Pete Newsome  25:03
But your opinion is irrelevant, in my opinion, unless you’re considering going to work there, or you’re an employee of that organization, or maybe if you’re a shareholder, in the organization. If you think it’s going to damage the stock price, but if you look at it, our company, of course, a private organization. 

Pete Newsome  25:25
I could make a crazy declaration like that, I could say that we’re moving the company to Alaska, tomorrow. And if you want to stay employed, you have to move to Alaska. Right? I can do that. It’s probably not going to work out very well. 

Ricky Baez  25:39
True I mean, that is your choice. Yeah, unless you really like Alaska, I mean, you really have to like it. 

Pete Newsome  25:44
I mean we would probably have one or two on board. 

Pete Newsome  25:47
So if you make a decision like that you do have to live with the consequences. But I don’t think it really should matter much to everyone else. Where let’s say it does have a negative consequence. Let’s say that if some significant percentage 10% or 20% of Twitter, sorry, Tesla employees, say, I’m not doing that I’m not going back, I’m back on the market. 

Pete Newsome  26:08
Well, we know they’re, really good employees, the rest of the world gets to benefit by their candidacy, potentially. Right, but similarly, I think it’s potentially a competitive advantage for those organizations who want to take the opposite approach to what he did and say, hey, come work for us. You don’t have to, we will never say that, I guess maybe never say never. 

Pete Newsome  26:36
But you can work anywhere. Because I think that’s a reason to work for 4 Corner Resources. I think the fact that you could live anywhere in the world and workforce. I think that’s really cool. And I am a huge fan of it as you know. But I also see the downside. And I’d be disingenuous if I didn’t point that out.

Ricky Baez  26:59
I hear that, I think it’s a small fraction of that downside, I think the pros highly outweigh the cons. I’ve been in situations, I used to be HR for a call center over in Lake Mary with 1200 people. And I remember talking to business partners because one employee did something wrong with a cell phone on the call center floor, you’re not supposed to have it. 

Ricky Baez  27:24
Next thing, you know, there’s a policy affecting 1200 employees because of the action of a few. And to me, I rather address the people who are not pulling their weight, the people who are not being productive, I rather address those folks individually and show them the way on what needs to happen production wise, rather than putting a blanket statement.

Ricky Baez  27:47
Come on, it came across kind of harsh, right? This is where you got to do it for now. You got to work somewhere else. It’s true. I mean, it’s not wrong, but there’s a way to say that. But it’s not like he’s hurting for people.

Pete Newsome  28:00
So we may disagree here too because I respect someone who tells you exactly where they stand. And an unapologetic way, he’s not looking for affirmation on this. He’s saying this is what I believe is the best route, this is the route we’re going to take. 

Pete Newsome  28:20
And you can take it or leave it. And again, this supports the market that I think we should have. Because competition is healthy. And if let’s say he ramps it up even further, just for fun. He says, okay, not only do you have to work in the office, you have to sleep there too.

Ricky Baez  28:42
I mean, that’s what he does. 

Pete Newsome  28:45
And it’s not coincidental that he’s the richest person in the world. 

Ricky Baez  28:49
Yeah. 

Pete Newsome  28:50
And we can’t get away from that, that success doesn’t happen by accident. 

Pete Newsome  28:56
And success usually goes to the person who outworks their competition. And, of course, the quick comeback to that is, well, I want to work smarter, not harder. Well, Elon Musk is working smarter than you are already. And he’s outworking you, good luck.

Ricky Baez  29:19
Dude, he is not human. 

Pete Newsome  29:20
But think about I mean, you know, so I’ve never heard a logical counter to that. All things being equal. The person or company that works or competition is going to win.

Ricky Baez  29:35
Yep, I agree.

Pete Newsome  29:36
100% of the time. Unless I’ll just say they’re going to win period. 

Pete Newsome  29:41
I won’t say 100% on anything but I think that is what he’s going for as much as anything else. And he clearly, well, not clearly, he seems to think that there is a loss of productivity or loss of something that can’t exist without workers being In the office, and I’ll continue to say the same thing. 

Pete Newsome  30:03
Who are we to say that that’s wrong? Don’t you assume he knows best at some level with his own organization?

Ricky Baez  30:08
I agree with that.

Ricky Baez  30:09
No, so look, your right, it is his company, he could do whatever he wants. You know, I’m a fan of the open market as well, right? Organizations should be able to do what they think would be the best process.

Ricky Baez  30:22
I’m with that 100%. Right. 

Ricky Baez  30:25
Again, it’s from my perspective, I’m thinking about the workforce, what the workforce is looking, and I’m not terribly concerned about what Tesla is going to do, because I don’t think they’re going to suffer that much of it. 

Ricky Baez  30:38
Because you’re right, people are knocking on the doors to work there. Somebody will join up as soon as somebody leaves. 

Ricky Baez  30:43
But I’m wondering what other organizations are going to do. Other organizations who may not have that brand power. And if Elon does it, I’m going to do it too. And then they are going to suffer.

Pete Newsome  30:54
Well, I’ll tell you that I don’t have any insight into their overall compensation, how they compare to the other organizations, or perks and benefits we’re not, we’re not lining those up right now. 

Pete Newsome  31:08
But I could say, on the surface, the ability to be a Tesla employee versus most other brands. Tesla’s going to win. Tesla has an advantage coming in. 

Pete Newsome  31:20
Now he’s saying hey, you want to work here we have higher expectations and requirements than everyone else. Is that really different than saying to work here, you have to have an advanced degree, you have to have gone to an Ivy League school?

Pete Newsome  31:35
Companies can do that if they can attract the employees and back it up. And I don’t think personally based on my perspective when it comes to these things, it’s going to make them worse as a business. 

Pete Newsome  31:49
I think in many ways is going to make them better if they can attract the employees now if they can’t, then that’s an entirely different problem. 

Pete Newsome  31:56
But I would have to air on the side of saying you do lose a little something, you do lose something how little or big it is. With employees not being in the office is I can’t really weigh in on yet.

Ricky Baez  32:16
I can, data I don’t have, I only know from experience. So let’s say the pandemic never happened, we all work from the office right? 

Ricky Baez  32:26
You and I are having coffee, we chit-chat chat talk about different things. Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, whatever the case, maybe in the office, right? I leave your office you work in for two or three hours, I do the same thing. 

Ricky Baez  32:40
I go get some more coffee stop by your office, hey, man, how you doing? What’s going on? We have more chit-chat, than FaceTime, right there, the human-to-human contact is crucial. It’s important. 

Ricky Baez  32:50
You don’t have that when you are telecommuting, but Microsoft Teams, Zoom, Skype, Google, Google Hangout, all these, software’s all these programs are becoming more and more intuitive to recreate that. 

Ricky Baez  33:04
Now is it going to recreate it 100% of the time, no, but it’s easy for us at a whim to just hit a button and we’ll have a FaceTime conversation. 

Ricky Baez  33:12
Albeit it’s not in person. That human connection isn’t there as if it’s live. But you have to do that more often virtually to make up what is lost in a face to face conversation in the office.

Pete Newsome  33:23
Well, so the counter to that is if you need to have a conversation with me to resolve something, whatever it might be, or to plan something, to accomplish something, whatever it might be. 

Pete Newsome  33:37
If we meet in the office, if you come by and say, Pete, let’s talk for a few minutes about this. 

Pete Newsome  33:42
Do you have time yep, my door is open come in, we go back and forth. Because it’s rarely just a one sided exchange, and or a one, back and forth exchange right? It usually goes needs to go on for a while. 

Pete Newsome  33:59
And if you do that over email, you do that over any of these communication tools, whether it’s Teams or Slack or Discord, whatever it might be, that is highly inefficient for someone who’s trying to be heads down and get work done. 

Pete Newsome  34:13
And so I think that’s part of the evolution right now that needs to be resolved, or companies and individuals need to figure out where email is. Email can be very intrusive and disruptive to progress. And I’ve had to change my way of using email. 

Pete Newsome  34:36
Since we’ve been virtual where I don’t look at it for long stretches, because people think it’s an instant messaging app. And when I’m trying to be productive when I’m trying to be creative in any way to constantly be interrupted is an awful thing. 

Pete Newsome  34:55
But I have this feeling that I need to be accessible to because I’m virtual. So that’s, that’s a that’s a weird thing where if I’m in my office with my door closed, people know I’m in my office, they know I’m working, they know the door is closed. 

Pete Newsome  35:12
So, as a leader of an organization, there’s a certain level of I don’t want to say respect, necessarily, but you know that I’m not at the beach. You know that I’m not at the golf course. 

Ricky Baez  35:26
Is this the trust thing again?

Pete Newsome  35:27
Trust but verify. I mean, you’re granting trust. 

Pete Newsome  35:32
I don’t. I don’t think it should be done as I say, I think it’s just like, I don’t think trust should be necessarily granted without a reason. Like, I want people to trust me because they see that I’m consistent and honest over time. 

Pete Newsome  35:53
I’d give them a reason to trust just go out on the world. I mean, go drop your wallet, and with $10,000 in it, and see how trusting you are. I mean, I don’t actually believe that you’re as trusting as you’re professing. 

Pete Newsome  36:07
So, by the way, so let me do this HR call center guy with 1200 seats. Did you guys manage your employee, did you have metrics and tracking? Did you know what the talk time was in the interim?

Ricky Baez  36:21
Oh, god, yeah. Your average handle time. 

Pete Newsome  36:23
Why didn’t you just have the employees tell you at the end of the week? Or why did having that? Why didn’t you just assume they were doing their best?

Ricky Baez  36:30
Well, it’s not because they’re not doing anything.

Ricky Baez  36:32
Because we use that to coach and maybe look, you know what, instead of spending five minutes on that call, if you shave this off, and that off, maybe you get it to four minutes, and maybe you get to hear it’s a coaching mechanism. 

Pete Newsome  36:42
So you don’t think when that software was sold, by the way, I used to sell call center software. 

Pete Newsome  36:47
So when that was sold, it wasn’t it didn’t have anything to do with being able to manage the productivity of the employees?

Ricky Baez  36:55
Now, I wasn’t there when that happened. I would assume the person who bought it. Yeah, that was a key feature. Right? I’m not going lie about it. Like, let’s check out these employees. 

Ricky Baez  37:06
But the main reason we use them was for coaching. Right? 

Ricky Baez  37:09
Now, obviously, if there was one person who, if everybody else has an average handle time of about five minutes, and the other person either had 30 minutes or five seconds, then that’s the outlier who was we would have a conversation with, right? 

Ricky Baez  37:23
Everybody else is doing what they’re supposed to be doing. But it’s a coaching mechanism. To me, I believe that if I extend an offer for you to work for me, and I’m giving you a salary, I think there’s a little trust implied there.

Pete Newsome  37:35
There is but I want people to trust me for good reason. And not just because I tell them to.

Ricky Baez  37:43
Agreed.

Pete Newsome  37:44
You know, and I think there are just different levels of trust.

Pete Newsome  37:48
Maybe that’s just my own way of viewing it. So do I assume you’re honest and ethical coming in? Oh, sure. Of course, I shouldn’t have hired you otherwise. And the same thing, if you go to work for an organization, you should assume the same. 

Pete Newsome  38:03
And should you operate that way, like if course, if I don’t trust an employee, they shouldn’t be an employee. If you don’t trust your employer, you shouldn’t be an employee of that organization. 

Pete Newsome  38:15
But at the same time, I think it helps if there’s a reason to feel that way, versus just being told to feel that way. Versus just assuming so back to where I was going with that if I’m in the office. 

Pete Newsome  38:31
I think that’s meaningful. If I’m just remote and inaccessible, and my phone’s off, it’s going right to voicemail. People are going to assume I’m off, I’m goofing around, and I probably am goofing around if I’m not if my phone’s off and accessible. 

Pete Newsome  38:45
And so that, I mean, that may sound a little, you may think that’s like, that’s unfortunate to feel that way. 

Pete Newsome  38:52
But maybe being in the staffing industry, for a long, long time has taught me that. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. And I’ve had a really difficult time believing otherwise at this point. 

Pete Newsome  39:10
I hear that.

Ricky Baez  39:11
So all this time, we’ve been talking about trust, the implied trust from the leader to the employee. I think it’s fair to talk about from the employee to the leader, right? 

Ricky Baez  39:20
At the same time, the employee has some kind of responsibility in that as well, because I hear you, if a leader is calling somebody, they’re not answering, right, and they don’t know what the person is doing. 

Ricky Baez  39:33
There’s something in the back of their head that says, you know, they assume the worst, right? And one of the things that in my head, I said, if I’m working from home ever working from home, I’m never going to give anybody the impression or let them believe that I’m going to be out doing something else. 

Ricky Baez  39:49
Okay, in the time we’ve worked together, Pete how many times have you called me and you couldn’t get a hold of me for more than about five minutes, because when you call me and either I’m on a call or doing something else. 

Ricky Baez  40:02
What do I do? I’ll call you right back.

Pete Newsome  40:05
So never, I’ve never had that issue with you.

Ricky Baez  40:10
Yeah, so that’s why when somebody calls me and I’m doing work, I want to make sure I got your call, here it is. I’m doing this, I’ll call you right back because I’m not going to give you any opportunity to think that I am making margaritas in Daytona Beach.

Pete Newsome  40:25
So you’re managing that perception? 

Ricky Baez  40:28
From my perspective, yes, I am managing. 

Pete Newsome  40:31
So I’ll turn that around back to you. Have you ever not? Have you ever found me to be inaccessible? Or even if I couldn’t pick up live?

Ricky Baez  40:40
See with you it is different, right? Because I would call you I know your calendar is way more packed than mine. You’re not just dealing with us. You’re dealing with other people, with clients, all these things. 

Ricky Baez  40:51
But every time that I’ve texted you that I’ve called you, you’ve let me know either you’re in a call, I’ll call you back when you call me back later. You’ve never not been inaccessible to any one of us.

Pete Newsome  41:01
So the point is, well, when we first met, we granted that a certain level of trust, but it’s been reinforced. 

Ricky Baez  41:08
Correct. 

Pete Newsome  41:08
So now. 

Ricky Baez  41:10
Two way street.

Pete Newsome  41:10
Of course. So change that scenario, let’s say, you’ve often felt I was inaccessible. You had a difficult time getting a hold of me. I would disappear for hours at a time in the middle of the workday. 

Pete Newsome  41:26
Wouldn’t you assume naturally, that at some point I probably wasn’t working? I wasn’t doing something productive. I wasn’t doing, I was hiding.

Ricky Baez  41:40
But here’s the thing Pete with you. The example with you is different. If you own the company you could do whatever the hell you want.

Pete Newsome  41:47
If I said that, right. But if but okay, so forget that. It’s me, right? Was anybody else with anyone? That’s where I made the comment where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Ricky Baez  41:59
I will be upset. So okay, so to answer that, let’s say outside of you owning the company, you’re my director, you have no ownership, right? If I couldn’t get a hold of you, like three or four hours out of a day, yeah, I would have questions. 

Ricky Baez  42:12
And I’m going to be upset because I’m like, that’s my leader, I can’t get a hold of my leader. So I would have an issue that in itself is giving me a reason not to trust.

Pete Newsome  42:22
So now what if it was someone who reported directly to you?

Ricky Baez  42:26
Same thing? 

Ricky Baez  42:26
Oh, absolutely. I can’t get a hold of you what’s going on? But seeing that situation Is the reason for me not to trust. I’m not going into that relationship. Having them to earn my trust.

Pete Newsome  42:39
But it happens with great frequency. I think that the difference in this is in staffing. We know how often people flake.

Ricky Baez  42:48
Yeah. 

Pete Newsome  42:49
And it happens with great frequency. So this idea of well, shouldn’t you trust all your employees? Yeah, in a perfect utopian world with rainbows and unicorns. Sure. 

Pete Newsome  43:02
But that would be a naive way to operate a business. And that’s where I think this is circling back to this thing where when you have 1000s of employees spread throughout the globe, and you operate, just assuming the best in each of them, then you’re not. 

Pete Newsome  43:20
Good luck. 

Pete Newsome  43:23
And now does that make me sound negative and pessimistic towards humanity? Maybe, but show me someone who’s been in staffing for two decades, who thinks otherwise. 

Pete Newsome  43:38
I don’t think you could find that person. Because we operate, you know, when we meet someone new, we want to establish expectations of accessibility and communication upfront. 

Pete Newsome  43:55
For that very reason, because we say look, if we can’t get a hold of you, we’re going to assume the worst, and because our experience has proven that that’s the wise thing to do. 

Pete Newsome  44:09
You know, the people who are in my life who matter never think I’m inaccessible ever and I’ve probably shared this with you before in a previous podcast, my wife, you know, any employer for 4 Corner Resources, any of our clients would never think I’m inaccessible. 

Pete Newsome  44:25
I’m pretty much accessible 24/7 through, but vendors trying to work with me, people who cold call the spam messages that I get hundreds of a day, they probably think I’m a ghost, they probably, they can get why because that’s not who I want to be accessible for. 

Pete Newsome  44:42
And so if you’re experiencing that employee-employer relationship, and I don’t care whether it’s the person you report to or the person who reports to you and I do think it’s valuable and necessary for me to be accessible as well as it is for our employees to be accessible. 

Pete Newsome  44:59
That trust disappears pretty quickly. And,  rightfully so in my opinion.

Ricky Baez  45:06
Yeah, I’m with you there, and then to go back, it’s been accessible it’s key, right? Because it takes away any preconceived notions that people may make up in their head with the absence of information, just that again, we’re humans. 

Ricky Baez  45:20
We do that all the time. Now back to you know, circling back to Elon and the 1000s of employees, I get what you’re saying there, then why not empower your leaders, your lieutenants to handle those people who violate that trust and ruin it for the other 90%? 

Ricky Baez  45:36
Right? 

Ricky Baez  45:36
Now, again, that’s his company, right? He runs it how he wants but from my perspective, I would just rather run an organization, not so much with an iron fist, but more with influence, not to say this is really harsh, right. 

Ricky Baez  45:51
But I would rather be more influential in how I bring people into the office because if I really wanted them in the office, I want to give them an incentive to do so that way they feel. 

Ricky Baez  46:01
Look, these folks are going to go into the office, even if they don’t want to, how productive are they going to be? Oh, I mean, I was going to work from home. Now I’m going into the office.

Pete Newsome  46:11
Yeah, you’re losing me there, because so what’s changed in your mind from you’ve never would have made that statement? No one would have made that statement two years ago.

Ricky Baez  46:20
No, actually, hold on. It’s so here’s the thing, right? 

Ricky Baez  46:24
You don’t know this. You don’t know that. So back, when I worked for Orange County government, I put together a business case to convince the mayor of all people to allow associates to work from home one day a week.

Ricky Baez  46:41
And never got to the mayor, it got to the County Administrator, he’s still there. So I’m not gonna say his name. And he looked me dead in the face, I can’t believe I’m about, to say this.

Ricky Baez  46:53
I don’t like that idea. I want these employees in the office where I can watch them.

Ricky Baez  46:59
And I’m like, wow dude, really? So here’s what I did. 

Ricky Baez  47:05
So I put together a business case, right with that rationale, that tells me you rather have people in the office upset because they’re in the office doing just enough not to get fired, than trusting them to really do a good job at home. 

Ricky Baez  47:19
Which, by the way, if they’re anything like me, I will go above and beyond working from home to take away any kind of notion that people think I’m in Daytona with Margarita to the point that sometimes I’ll work until 8:30 at night, just because I forget I’m home.

Pete Newsome  47:33
Sure, I think to some degree, a large organization does have to conform to the least common denominator. And I think that’s what we’re talking about here. 

Ricky Baez  47:46
And that’s true. 

Ricky Baez  47:48
I hear that.

Pete Newsome  47:49
It’s a tough thing to say, give employees exactly what they want. If that’s not what’s best for the business, that doesn’t make sense. 

Pete Newsome  48:01
And that you could argue what is best for the business. And I think that’s what we’re trying to get to with all this. 

Pete Newsome  48:07
But it’s not as easy as just would you like to give ever, you know, pay everyone, you know, a billion dollars a year and have them work an hour? Of course, right? 

Pete Newsome  48:18
But then it’s a matter of practicality you have to work backwards from. How much can you pay? How many hours are necessary to get the job done? What kind of metrics or demands do you have to put in place on your employees. 

Pete Newsome  48:33
And every business I believe, struggles with that, and finding that line where I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago, I won’t name who it was with, but it was with a young professional, who was complaining about changes that their employer had made.

Pete Newsome  48:51
It is similar to these like they’re making us come back in the office, now they’re making us do this, and they’re bad for that. 

Pete Newsome  48:56
And I’m thinking, oh, man, you know, I have to make tough decisions. Sometimes I have to make decisions that whether it’s my decision to make it ultimately resides with me is the owner of the business. 

Pete Newsome  49:08
And we made one in the past year, that was very unpopular. It was sort of what misinterpreted had to do with time off. And it was with good intentions. I mean, it was absolutely done for the benefit of the employees, but it wasn’t perceived that way. 

Pete Newsome  49:26
And therefore it appeared to be a bad idea. And we’ve corrected that. And then some I think we probably offer more time off now than what we go up to unlimited, so I’m not sure we can do better than that. 

Pete Newsome  49:41
Which I never thought I would do. But nonetheless. I was hearing this conversation I had to tell this young professional like, listen, go talk to them about the decision, because I can assure you in almost every case It’s not done to harm you, it’s not done to upset you. 

Pete Newsome  50:03
It’s done for a business reason. And you may not have that entire picture of what was behind that, just like we don’t have with Elon and his decision. 

Pete Newsome  50:12
But if I were betting, I would say it wasn’t to hurt the employees, it wasn’t to make their lives lesser than they are. No one would want to do that intentionally. That said, there’s got to be a business reason for it.

Ricky Baez  50:28
So that’s a good point. Because you are right for an employee to get upset for a decision that was made in the organization. It really is a good idea, instead of getting all upset about it, just talk to the source. 

Ricky Baez  50:39
Hey, help me understand why this is happening. Not that you have to explain to me, but it’d be nice to know the rationale behind it, because here’s what I’m thinking. 

Ricky Baez  50:49
So that is a good point. I do get that. And I don’t think Elon put that out there. I agree with you. I don’t think Elon put that out there just to make people’s life miserable.

Pete Newsome  51:00
He didn’t mean to put it out there at all someone else did.

Ricky Baez  51:05
He has got to be smart enough to know, whatever he sends out, that’s controversial. It’s going to get leaked.

Pete Newsome  51:09
I mean, I don’t think he cares, right? I mean, you know, he’s going to say what it needs to be said, and not, and not try to sugarcoat it. But he didn’t, you know, broadcast this to the world intentionally. So.

Ricky Baez  51:21
So I think what you just said there is the exact takeaway I would like the listeners to walk away with.

Ricky Baez  51:28
If you are upset if you’re an employee that are completely upset with a decision that your leadership has made. Don’t get upset about I mean, yes, you can not get upset about it, you’re a human being. 

Ricky Baez  51:40
But talk to them, ask them to ask the reason why to get a different perspective as to why it happened. It might change your mind. So that’s a good point, I think our listeners should walk away with.

Pete Newsome  51:51
Yeah, we were talking the other day about how to feel if you’re turned down when you ask for a raise. And it’s similar to that where it’s not going to be the answer you want necessarily. 

Pete Newsome  52:04
But you should feel it’s within your rights to get that answer to get the why behind it. And that the message that we saw publicly, in that email did not share much behind it other than this is what we’re doing, take it or leave it and he can do that. 

Pete Newsome  52:22
And every company can do that. They may suffer as a result. I don’t think Tesla will.

Ricky Baez  52:28
I don’t think so either to be honest. 

Pete Newsome  52:30
And it’ll be interesting to see. And not that we’ll ever know definitively whether Tesla feels ultimately that it was the right decision. And but look, a lot of companies are struggling with that right now. 

Pete Newsome  52:42
Every day, there are new articles out about companies saying okay, now that pandemics over come back to work. And employees, look people, it’s funny because whether you realize it or not you taking a stance that you wouldn’t have taken two years ago.

Pete Newsome  52:59
You may have supported the idea. And we at 4 Corner already letting employees work from home with the intention of ultimately giving a fully virtual option. COVID, fast forwarded that for us. 

Pete Newsome  53:12
And so we just said, well, here we are, let’s just do it now. And we don’t feel that there’s a loss of productivity. We feel the pros outweigh the cons, but the cons are still there. And they’re still real. And I struggle with it. 

Pete Newsome  53:24
Because I know we have three new employees starting on Monday, actually, four new employees starting on Monday, three and recruiting roles. 

Pete Newsome  53:32
And their training and evolution and interactions are not going to be as rich and as deep as they would otherwise have if they were in the office surrounded by peers and people with more experience. 

Pete Newsome  53:47
You just can’t recreate that. And so is it productivity in this case? No, not really. But it’s something, it’s something real, that we’re losing by being virtual. 

Pete Newsome  54:03
But again, for us in our business and our situation, we think the pros outweigh the cons. So we’re going to stay virtual.

Ricky Baez  54:10
So it’s funny you just happen to mention that right now with the four employees starting on Monday because I was just at the office downtown yesterday talking to the HR person, you know, to make sure she’s ready for because this is the first time she’s doing new employee orientation. 

Ricky Baez  54:24
So I’m there I’m like, you got this you got that? Here’s what you got to do and how I’m teaching her how to recreate that person with me because you’re right. There’s a lot of loss there when you don’t do it live. 

Ricky Baez  54:39
But what I started working with her on is look, onboarding starts as soon as they apply. Right? You start having those conversations start reaching out to them start being personal with them. 

Ricky Baez  54:50
You have to do a lot more legwork virtually to try to recreate that experience as much as possible. But dude, you brought that up. I’m so excited for Monday, I really am. 

Ricky Baez  55:01
Because you’ve got four employees coming in brand spanking new. They’re gonna come into this brand new environment, brand new world. I’ve got the HR person excited about it, too. 

Ricky Baez  55:12
She’s going to do an amazing job on Monday. So I cannot wait. Yeah, it’s funny. You bring that up right now because we were just having a conversation about that at the office yesterday.

Pete Newsome  55:19
Well, it’s exciting always to have new employees, especially when they’re coming in a group, but it is incumbent upon us to make sure that they don’t have a lesser experience than those who were in the office. 

Pete Newsome  55:32
And it’s a work in progress. So I don’t judge anyone else on how they’re doing things. We’re doing what we think is best for us for our, for our team, and for our future. 

Pete Newsome  55:44
And we’ll see if we’re right. And I think a lot of changes and evolution are still ahead in this respect without question.

Ricky Baez  55:54
So June 3 2026, we’re gonna revisit this. 

Pete Newsome  55:59
Okay.

Ricky Baez  55:59
We’re gonna have another podcast. Let’s see how this worked out. Let’s see how this worked for Tesla and all the organizations that have taken a hard line stance in one way or the other.

Pete Newsome  56:08
Let’s do 2023 first, because boy, that’s I mean, it’s possible things will be unrecognizable a year from now, compared to. 

Ricky Baez  56:17
Yeah, good point. 

Pete Newsome  56:18
I mean, dude, let’s get to November first.

Ricky Baez  56:23
Where turkeys $80 a pound. 

Pete Newsome  56:26
Well, back to that. Back to that petrodollar conversation, we were having, but that’s for a different podcast. 

Pete Newsome  56:32
We’ll get there later. All right, man. I think we’d beat this up for today. And Elon Tesla, good luck. Not that you need it from us. You’re doing okay on your own. But this will be fun to watch and see. And it’s a work in progress for all of us. That’s for sure.

Ricky Baez  56:50
Absolutely. 

Pete Newsome  56:52
All right, man. 

Ricky Baez  56:53
I’m excited to see what happens. 

Pete Newsome  56:54
So thank you for everyone who listened today. As always, we love suggestions. Our next podcast is going to be a bit another q&a. We haven’t done one of those in a while. So look for that next week. 

Pete Newsome  57:04
In the meantime, email us anytime Hirecalling@4cornerresources.com. And please rate and review us we’d love five stars. So thank you in advance for that and have a great rest of your day. 

Ricky Baez  57:15
Have a good one, folks.